zippo raid

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    A permanent ban is often a method to get the accused to post an appeal. It is not at all times the verdict.
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Well, the ban request on Zippo isn't going to go through. As far as pirate's situation, I'll talk it out with Zippo tomorrow.
 
I realize my word means next to nothing in this case, but equally it's fairly clear this ban was a result of bad blood, a late night and a frustrating situation.

While Pirate maybe pushed it a little too far, permabanning him for an argument and an insult, especially given the self-admittance that the intent didn't matter in regards to the ban itself (in that moment and likely a result of frustration) would frustrate anyone.

It's fairly clear that this isn't just taken as the situation itself in relation to Pirate, but anger and an OOC dislike stretching back to prior events - which really isn't fair, as it wasn't done due to any actual prior buildup outside of a personal dislike. If Pirate had of been running around RDMing and doing what he used to do back in 2014/15? Sure, I'd understand it. But one blowout (the first in a long time, as I understand it) only to up and perma him with "will you fuck off already" seriously doesn't look good.

Most of the team are willing to acquiesce, until the time someone bumps into the person that isn't.

But on a practical level, I don't see someone who is actively disrupting the server, who RDM's or willfully ignores whatever's said. I see someone who loses his shit now and again, and personally that isn't worth the permaban.
 
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Echoes said:
What the fuck is this vigilantism shit? I barely read this tangential shitshow but I'm tired of this prattling about how its a "collaborative storytelling server" after trying to justify a person attacking someone trying to RP with a fist swep as "unknowingly breaking the rules." Last I checked, you fucks are quick to declare ignorance isn't an excuse in any other situation.

What a retarded permaban, that you are unwilling to account for after declaring that youre unwilling to argue.
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Literally this.

I wont stand around and spam /a until an admin comes to deal with a RP disrupting minge puncher when I can send him back to spawn, send the /a and return to my roleplaying session. You can deal with him on the other side of the map.
 
I don't mean to fuel the fire here either, but from the logs it looks as if there was no intent to ban Pirate up until he said what he said when the argument was finishing. He criticized the lack of effort and you seemed to shrug that off until he called you a retard - if the issue had been anything else, I can't imagine you'd have let him continue for as long as he did if you had any issue with anything else - because you argued right back.

That, or you waited for him to continue until you felt you had a justified reason to ban him.

Which, fair, everyone has moments of anger where they say and do things that are a bit extreme. But that then makes this appeal look more like justifying what was done after the fact than anything.
 
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There's one issue with zippo's conduct here nobody's mentioned. Specifically, if pirate's logs tell the whole story pirate sends a !a and zippo responds in general OOC. I don't mean to pick on zippo in particular, but this is way too common at TNB and it's bad for at least two reasons. First, if you have a complaint about an admin that admin shouldn't be allowed to broadcast your complaint to the whole server. If someone is sending a !a about you, respond directly to that person via PMs, don't assume they're okay with the issue being public knowledge.

Second, admins don't suffer from the OOC delay but the person sending the request does. So even if you're okay with arguing in public, the admin has a serious advantage because you can send one message every X seconds while they bombard the OOC chat with messages about how wrong you are. It's just seriously bad form to argue on a platform where you have an advantage over the other person for a technical reason.

I don't think zippo's the worst offender here -- that award has to go to Yoyo, who uses OOC pretty much exclusively to broadcast bizarre pro-Trump tirades and call for the real-life assassination of his political opponents -- but it's something to be aware of in the future.
 
The only thing I trimmed out of the logs are my roleplay and unrelated chatter between him banning adderall and him banning me. The reason I /a'd in the first place is that the OOC delay was set to ten minutes at the time, so I only got one gooc message out the whole time

His use of GOOC to respond one-sidedly to my /as is pretty petty but I don't get my feelings hurt easily from shit like that so I didn't mention it

Here's the log with only IC chat removed -- CC doesn't log ban messages apparently though

CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013: [OOC] were those shots IC
Geraldo Idna: [OOC] no
Jean-Marc Holiday: [OOC] are you IC
CCA.C17-MACE.02.95720: [OOC] no
CCA.C17-HAMMER.04.50932: [OOC] only 15 min?
Ash Vernon: [OOC] shouldve gone for 15.5 minutes
Ash Vernon: [OOC] shame
CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013: [OOC] i don't care who his friends are or what the context was or who he was fucking around with
Jean-Marc Holiday: [OOC] bad rp from zip rod
Jerry Arnold: [OOC] DICK PISS FUCK
Horace Walters: [OOC] Professional
Victoire Descoteaux: [OOC] Dicks do piss fuck.
Katyusha Maksimova ("beard"): [TO ADMINS] whyd u ban him for shooting someone who was punchwhoring
CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013: [OOC] cause there's /a for a reason
CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013: [OOC] not scroll wheel
Katyusha Maksimova: [OOC] be honest here would u have bothered responding because in my experience the answers no u wouldnt have lol
CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013: [OOC] u don't me then i live to ban retards like that pal
Wait 628 seconds to talk in OOC.
Katyusha Maksimova ("beard"): [TO ADMINS] awful lot of them around if uve got such dedication
CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013: [OOC] i said it once i'm over picking through situations and playing detective cause somebody wants to try to solve things themselves, we stopped talking to eachother long ago over this pirate and it still causes the same dumb bullshit
Katyusha Maksimova ("beard"): [TO ADMINS] then stop being so fuckn lazy and do ur job instead ofb anning roleplayers 4 reacting negatively to havin their rp disrupted
Isabell 'Jazz' Vogel: [OOC] do we gotta have the drama in GOOC?
Trey Richelieu: [OOC] ty
Scott Michaels: [OOC] np buddy
Katyusha Maksimova ("beard"): [TO ADMINS] ive been an admin, i get it, its real easy to lose touch with player issues when uve got the ban stick urself
Katyusha Maksimova ("beard"): [TO ADMINS] but im tellin u nobodys thinking "ah gee i better call an admin" when admins dont fucking answer half the time as retard #9 billion for that day is doing the same thing
CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013: [OOC] pirate dunno why you're calling me lazy when i received no /a about it besides my own intuition of hearing gunshots in the distance on my CP now please shut the fuck up about it i really don't care your friend is in a timeout
Ash Vernon: [OOC] that's cool but thats what pms are for so
Katyusha Maksimova ("beard"): [TO ADMINS] you are being lazy because you cba to investigate the issue and instead just issue bans based on limited console feedback
Katyusha Maksimova ("beard"): [TO ADMINS] then get mouthy and condescending in ooc when people tell u to fuck off
[PM from CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013] i'm lazy because thats some shit i don't have to go sniffing down the pipeline of it's called /a for us it's simple dude i'm not backtracking through RDM logs
[PM from CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013] don't do it plain and simple i'm done arguing get mad all you want over some dumb shit
[PM to CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013] lmao ur still a fuckin retard nice 2 know
 
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Zero tolerance policies don't work in real life, there's little chance they'd work here - a community run by teenagers.

Reasonably, you should take situations like this on a case-by-case basis instead of a blanket punishment.

However I think there's more to this ban than just RDM and some shit-talk back and forth.
 
I didn't even rdm anyone, I just questioned him banning someone else for doing it but several of his posts in this thread seem to be constructed to make it seem like I was personally involved in the dm somehow despite being on the other end of the map doing some 1-on-1

Throughout this thread zippo raid has repeatedly mentioned things I did or was prone to do reaching back to 2014 so it's clear he's unwilling to let go of past grievances despite me having well moved on from them. That might be the most frustrating thing about this entire scenario (aside from being permabanned for saying the r-word).

Also man I'm not taking down the rum during a ban appeal again I was barely coherent after a point last night
 
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brigand! said:
well I'm still permabanned so what do you expect me to do now
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Whyd you post a ban request calling out zippo instead of an unban request explaining yourself

I agree that your ban was way too much and am 100% for it being lifted but it almost seems like you wanted to start a forum fire
 
Because from where I'm sitting zippo raid is misusing his admin powers to fuck with me and interrupt my roleplay over personal shit

I'm not expecting him to get banned or removed but I'd like some kind of "yeah no you can't do that" as opposed to me getting quietly unbanned and leaving the issue to stew until next time. We don't have any sort of general complaint board so there's nowhere else to put it really.
 
i dont see pirate as the person to really care about drama, that's just not his theme

zippo wasnt wrong to have banned adderall for rdm nor was pirate wrong to point out adderall was only defending himself but its wrong when zippo ignored the possibility he might have been wrong and when pirate called him a retard. zippo might have turned an ear on pirate when pirate started kicking mud but if pirate had said nothing it would have been unaddressed

this ended up way bigger than it had to be and i wish you can both see some fault in how you interacted with one another and hopefully reduce friction in the future
 
note zippo raid was the first one to call anyone a retard in this scenario and I only called him a retard when he said he wasn't obligated to investigate/consider context when issuing punishments and "i'm done talking about it, u mad?"

I asked an honest and valid question (which flatpancake ultimately ended up answering for me in SF, the first person who's ever offered me a compelling answer for it that goes beyond "its da rules xddd") and he responded with snark and dismissal right out of the gate. Reacting negatively to that isn't something that only I do.
 
A 15 minute ban is way more disruptive to roleplay than gunshots. Especially when you're banning actual roleplayers. Why's there gotta be a moral argument over wasting some punchwhore from DarkRP who calls your mother a bitch in IC chat?

There are times when RDM is very annoying like when people are just fucking around in teamspeak and start shooting each other constantly, but this is not that situation. Take a moment of silence for the mingebag and let everyone get on with their roleplay.
 
I frankly have no issue with Zippo personally but I think it's very poor form to continue an argument and be just as inflamatory/outright dismissive of the issue, get right to the end of the argument and decide to ban the other person when they say one comment that might be out of line when both are frustrated.

For all @adderall should have used /a, this entire situation ended in two RPers banned (one perma) with the actual offender simply kicked.

"CCA.C17-HAMMER.02.88013: [OOC] i don't care who his friends are or what the context was or who he was fucking around with"

Is going to piss anyone off especially when the guy who actually came on to minge and fuck about got a kick rather than a ban, and that's the first word on the subject given. There wasn't even a concession, it was "He didn't use /a, so he was in the wrong and it's only fifteen mins." despite many people agreeing on posts on this thread they'd do the same as Adreall (+ /a)... and this led to a second person now perma'd.

I understand that you have a harsh stance on things, Zippo, but it's not always benificial to be so black-and-white with situations.
 
Christ, you niggas would keep this thing going on for pages if I didn't step in. To paraphrase what I said to pirate yesterday and to restate and add to what I already said in the thread, killing players and minges (because this sometimes extends to non-minges and people that players simply don't like or agree with) is bad because it leads to a variety of situations that can be entirely avoided by simply involving the administration, who act as the moderators to the server and the community, not necessarily as the DMs (which varies between admins and some do more than others). I don't know what the exact context was that led to Adderall shooting the player to begin with (sounds like the minge was using a black model with the name gentleman Joe), but once you shoot and kill a minge, you hinder and potentially ruin any potential chance of converting a random player into a long time member of the community. You frustrate that player and cause them to act out unfavorably, you insert the seed that they're a problem player and a minge, you form a bias that will likely take weeks if not months to be changed (the idea that this person is a minge through and through), and you add to the overall OOC sentiment that breeds mistrust and goes against the idea of collaborative efforts. Are all minges capable of becoming long time members who are worth keeping around? Of course not, but killing them and causing them to get rowdy, ultimately getting them kicked or banned, is a net negative because all you've done is given yourself a momentary peace (in this case, the guy immediately came back and started punching Adderall). Stop acting out, the administration team is here for a reason and we don't spend hours of our day in the server, usually with more than one of us on at a time, so you can take things and deal with it yourself.

As a side note, I'm referring to the city specifically, since I don't spend much time on S2 and I can't speak for the admins that frequent there, so don't tack on complaints about them not wanting to break RP to teleport or refund you scripts.

Getting back on topic regarding pirate's ban, I spoke with Zippo already and he agreed to let the ban be removed. However, that doesn't mean I don't disagree with having given pirate a temporary ban, because at the end of the day, the administration does deal with a multitude of requests all day, especially during active hours, and we don't need unnecessary attitude when things could be discussed civilly. Also, it's really not the fact that either side used the word retard that's offensive, pirate was the one who called into question Zippo's administration twice ("be honest here would u have bothered responding because in my experience the answers no u wouldnt have lol" and "awful lot of them around if uve got such dedication").

I'm locking this thread. Open up a CCC for further grievances, retards.
 
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