Withdrawn TheGr8Spade appeal

[Ballin]

Where you got banned from: Forums

The name you got banned under (this can be a character on-server, forum account name or discord username): TheGr8Spade

Your SteamID or a link to your steam profile https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197972502083/

Information about the ban itself
When were you banned? 6/11

How long is the ban? 3 months

Who applied it? Not Stated

What is the ban reason? Not stated.

Hello again. I’m back here and even more in the dark than ever. I’m banned once again, and I’ve not been given any reason as to why or any real forewarning. I’ve been sentenced to 3 months with 0 clarification or proper reasoning as to why.



There was no real process or visibility to myself let alone anybody else before somebody deemed it to be so. It's frustrating when trust for moderation is already low. I don’t want this to end up being a public shame session or a zinger post but for the love of all that’s holy; communicate with your community members.

With that being said, I'd like to discuss the very steep ban for what I ‘think’ might have been the reason why;
I called someone a ‘fruitcake’ on Discord when we were just spitballing in general chat. No malice or any kind of ill intent. I’m ready to just put this behind us and move on from this silly scenario. I’ve been banned for four days now and I believe that is enough time if the reasoning given is true. I’m an active member of this community and I’d like to come back now.

 

[Dandy (dethroned)]

You did more than call me a fruitcake once. I was ready to let it sit with just a 24-hour timeout from the TnB discord, but you then immediately doubled down in another community's discord and decided to call me a Coward (and said the same slur again!) for timing you out. I then forwarded this to the rest of the mod team.

Spoiler: image

To be clear, I didn't apply the three-month ban. skylion did, in this case. I was going to apply warning points for harassment and call it a day with whatever the punishment from that was going to be. Knowing that you did not have ill intent is fine, but I don't know you like that for you to be calling me a slur, nor even if I did would it be appropriate for you to be using slurs in public here, no matter how close you are to somebody.

You may be ready to put it behind yourself, but I'm not until I get an actual apology, instead of an attempt to play it off as just a joke. Pending an actual apology, I'm giving this a -1 for an entire ban removal. Reduction, maybe, but I'm still unsure. My DM's are open anytime for a talk.

 

[Ballin]

"Slur? Give me a break. I'm not sure why I must grovel to you over such a pointless inane thing. Your demands are ridiculous, more evident as you aren't being taken serious by many folk. Those in 'that' Discord were so confused at this because of how ridiculous you are behaving. You should not be part of the staff team if you cannot handle off the cuff talk between fellow dudes. I'm not gonna sugar coat it; this is overstepping and making you look bad. Sky? Really? I'm disappointed.

I'll always stand on my beliefs and many respect it regardless how abrasive, and I'll say that you are wrong. You will recieve no recompense from me so long as you treat your positions as golden thrones to shit on others with with your moral grandstanding when I KNOW a fair portion of you still say slurs constantly. Give up the act, please. You are all falling behind.

And if you must know; I AM Bi-Sexual. Get over yourself, fruitcake."

 

[blooregardo]

It shouldn't be a big deal to stop calling someone a term they don't like being called. If there's truly no malice, it's not really groveling to say "hey, I didn't mean it like that and I didn't mean for that remark to cause the harm it did, I apologize and I'll stop calling you that." If you think that it's a submissive or weak gesture to own up to unintentional harm -even if it's something you'd not consider a barb if directed at you-, that's a problem with your own idea of weakness

 

[Johnston]

yea i mean if someone says "plz dont call me that" and you keep doing it... it does not bode well mr. spadio

it's one thing to do this elsewhere (and for the record i do not support bans for things said outside of tnb forums/discord), but in the tnb discord or forums, the rules apply, and that includes harassment

2-A) Racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia & ableism have no place in our community. Use of slurs or harassment of this caliber will be dealt with.
(2-B) Do not repeatedly target and harass any member. There will always be beef between one person or another. Do not go out of your way to attack them publicly or privately. If you have a problem with another community member and you must engage with them in public, keep it civil and sort out your differences respectfully.

- Community Rules Thread

e: evidently the second occurrence happened outside of an official tnb space, in the trp4 discord. a bit iffy at this point, but it can still be considered as harassment ("publicly or privately"). in this case, i imagine the CLs determined it was enough to break 2-B. plus... you did use it again here... in this thread... my guy

 

[Brealaran]

It shouldn't be a big deal to stop calling someone a term they don't like being called. If there's truly no malice, it's not really groveling to say "hey, I didn't mean it like that and I didn't mean for that remark to cause the harm it did, I apologize and I'll stop calling you that." If you think that it's a submissive or weak gesture to own up to unintentional harm -even if it's something you'd not consider a barb if directed at you-, that's a problem with your own idea of weakness

I concur. I didn't really know that the word in question was a slur, though I did know the connotations behind it. The crux of the issue here is that you are doubling down on calling Dandy something that he felt disrespected by. This is an exceedingly silly matter.

On review for any action from a Community Moderator, I feel it very important to ensure that a rule was violated first, then move on to the merits of the appeal after establishing a violation. I think it's a matter of notice, but also it's a matter of keeping staff accountable. In this case, no exact section of our rules is given by Dandy or Sky, but that is not dispositive to a finding of no rule being violated...

In this case, at an admitted stretch, this falls under rules 2-A and 2-B of out Community Rules.

2-A stipulates:

Racism, sexism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia & ableism have no place in our community. Use of slurs or harassment of this caliber will be dealt with.

It doesn't take a long search to discover that fruitcake is a pejorative that refers to both the food product and gay men. This much is satisfied. The rule mentions "caliber," which is somewhat ambiguous, so I briefly analyze the structure of the sentence to determine the meaning behind it. In this case, the sentence refers to "slurs or harassment of this caliber." A plain reading of the sentence shows that "of this caliber" refers solely to "harassment," and not "slurs," leaving a final interpretation that use of any slurs is a violation, and harassment up to a certain caliber which amounts to racism, sexism, misogyny, etc., is a violation.

In this case, we have a use of a slur, which is in violation of 2-A.

Next, we have 2-B, which states:

Do not repeatedly target and harass any member. There will always be beef between one person or another. Do not go out of your way to attack them publicly or privately. If you have a problem with another community member and you must engage with them in public, keep it civil and sort out your differences respectfully.

Under this rule, I ask myself whether we have repeated and targeted harassment here. The rule also gives us further guidance, requiring community members to "not go out of [their] way to attack others publicly or privately." (Emphasis added). It also states that players should "keep it civil and sort out [their] differences respectfully." The only ambiguity I find in this rule is the word "repeatedly," which at minimum means more than 2 instances of targeting or harassment, or at most could mean any unenumerated number. I prefer a literal approach, so for the purpose of my own writing here, "repeatedly" will mean any number greater than 1.

In this case, we have two instances where you used this word against Dandy. Dandy's saying you've done more than just call him a fruitcake once, but the two instances are all I have here in this thread. The first instance would not have resulted in adverse action against you for 2-B necessarily, but could have under 2-A. After the second use in the TRP discord, you satisfy the requirements for a violation under 2-B.

You also mention that you are bisexual and you tell Dandy to "get over it..." your bisexuality has nothing to do with whether or not you can call someone else homophobic slurs. Plenty of people who identify as LGBT+ dislike the use of slurs relating to themselves, just as much as others use these same slurs for reclamation. You don't get to choose when the use of these words, when used towards others who may take offense, is okay or not. This is not an affirmative defense.

You're saying that Dandy's request is ridiculous, but an apology really is the easiest thing to do outside of doing nothing. We don't get to decide how our words or conduct affects others, and something like this is frankly so small I don't understand why it's been blown up into what it is now. It's not difficult to apologize for hurting someone, even if you disagree that your actions could have hurt them.

-1 to full reversal at this time. +1 to adjustment of ban length if you just apologize, learn, and move on.

 

[straylight]

"Slur? Give me a break. I'm not sure why I must grovel to you over such a pointless inane thing. Your demands are ridiculous, more evident as you aren't being taken serious by many folk. Those in 'that' Discord were so confused at this because of how ridiculous you are behaving. You should not be part of the staff team if you cannot handle off the cuff talk between fellow dudes. I'm not gonna sugar coat it; this is overstepping and making you look bad. Sky? Really? I'm disappointed.

I'll always stand on my beliefs and many respect it regardless how abrasive, and I'll say that you are wrong. You will recieve no recompense from me so long as you treat your positions as golden thrones to shit on others with with your moral grandstanding when I KNOW a fair portion of you still say slurs constantly. Give up the act, please. You are all falling behind.

And if you must know; I AM Bi-Sexual. Get over yourself, fruitcake."

I think you (Spade) would benefit from a bit of time to contemplate why this isn't a good example of how to respond to somebody in this sort of situation. -1 for unban/reduction.

 

[valerstein]

I too vote no on an unban / reduction. I don’t think it should take much to show respect to people, and the lack of understanding in your reply for you to drop the term and keep up the disrespectful act you were originally banned for is actually insane lmfao

 

[slug]

Ballin has conveyed to mods that Spade is not engaging with the appeal further.

The ban will be sustained.