TRP: Siberia - Feedback

Benji Dooble

Happily Married
Jun 1, 2015
6,133
Identity
the bandit stuff on day 1 was not intentional on the admin team’s part at all, and it was very frustrating to see it. We were very clear in planning that we were against senseless S2K and reskins of mass conflict between 2 factions.

That’s all I gotta say on that, really.
Who was s2king?
 
Feb 28, 2018
591
at one point there was a bunch of S2K somewhere, in that hospital-like place. It was the whole “the EFF’s supplies have been stolen” in /ev. It wasn’t caused by any PBG or player.
Honestly I was wondering how tf they even got in when the base has one entrance, and all the windows were blocked
And the armory had a locked door, and a barred up window
 

Grogrock

Senior Member
Jul 1, 2018
220
Identity
All I will say about bandits and stuff, and I didn't have any "stickup" experience while out and about, is that you sometimes want to vet people before you put them into antagonistic roles.

I don't want to derail the thread from Siberia, but there was a seemingly similar case going on between the bandits / Castellum players (albeit not as severe) and those who were playing the National Guard during the Lafayette Campaign. For those who recall that case, a lot of the confusion that emerged from that involved some players hopping on NG characters that they got authorized and sorta just screwing around with them.

In this case it was more of some sloppy PVP etiquette, like moving long distances uphill without actually telegraphing your action to do that. And yeah I'll be more direct, but one case that miffed me was where I spent some turns setting up a sniper position to get a flank during the Castellum battle. I think I telegraphed taking aim at somebody (I didn't specify who), only for the team I was aiming at to turn around OOC afterwards, run to cover away from me without an action (stopping), then jumping down from that cover (stopping again), and then moving a third time out of my line of sight.

To me that seemed like somebody made three move actions to dramatically break line of sight before I could even type up a /me that indicated they were a target by shooting in their direction.

Tbh though I think part of that is not only PVP but moreso movement etiquette. I've seen that stuff on the main server before too where people cover long distances (even when encumbered with heavy kit).
 

Shia

Member
Mar 15, 2018
52
Identity
good points, I totally agree, but in my experience soft reboots aren't a super reliable way to prevent that. Part of that is the lore. As I recall, the reason why the T800 was even fielded was because the resistance began to capture plasma technology for their own use. As we know Skynet was fielding plasma up to a 45 Wattage. Even that, in sustained fire, will knock down a T800. And so, Skynet made the T850.
Yeah, I get that. Plus, there's some 870 thing now, isn't there? Came back from a hiatus recently, so I'm pretty out of date on alot of the recent developments. Still, maybe make plasma a less effective thing - or have it be a more support role thing. Have some TC big boys pepper a boy with plasma to weaken their armor up, then the standard TC or scavs can use ballistics to greater effect.

That's the back and forth that we're working with. Humans are resourceful creatures, and they will find a way to capture or repurpose technology to use it against the machines. The machines, in turn, will build better machines. This is the "arms race" dynamic that has made the main server turn into a measuring contest between the immovable drone and the unstoppable watt (drone defenses and resistances increase, plasma power increases to compensate). It's just simple powercreep, and I think that's a built-in feature.
I will say, the arms race aspect is pretty fun, in my opinion. But, while arms are built up and developed to counter the constantly improving terminators, scavs tend to get left in the dust. TC and Skynet get kicked up a notch, and non-alligned players tend (from what I saw before I took a break) to get stuck in a previous stage, leaving their weapons mildly effective against new bots, or reliant on TC. Maybe newer Skynet automatons can have the same fear that, say, a 700 would have on the Siberia setting. Maybe the big boys can be somewhat reliant on reprogs to take them out, or focus more on outwitting them. Hell, strong as something like an 850 is, some scav could still knock it off it's feet with a truck, leaving it vulnerable for a reprog to wield a better plasmagat than TC's regular lads, or give scavs/TC some time to focus fire, escape, or what have you.


This is why at least I think a few people are saying like "yeah I loved Siberia, but we should try to improve the main server". Eventually Siberia could become like the main server as far as balance, even if the admins monitored stuff like donation weapons closely.
Absolutely. Above all, I'd like the main setting to be improved further, rather than exclusively stay on Siberia. But, some things can be taken from Siberia and implemented, like in my original post. Just having more struggle, more s2rp, and having more of an affect on how things turn out would be great. It was amazing to see each individual player having an impact on how battles went. It's much better than having some huge, grandiose battle with half the roster flagged on from each main faction, while less equipped TC or scavs still end up having zero impact on the battle.

One more thing, just having skirmishes and battles be, by default, something that either side can win or lose in would be a great change. Maybe Skynet can push hard enough in a BP raid that people have to pull back, hide, run, or anything like that. Equally, it'd be cool to have an unlikely victory on the human side of things, managing to topple a few beasts of steel against all odds. With terminators being as big of a threat on the main setting as they are in Siberia, it could be a terrifying encounter that you'll barely survive, or a resounding victory that gives confidence to the survivors on humanity's side. Feels alot better in text than it does some arcade shootout. It'd be alot less impactful if Rybin died in some s2k shootout, rather than him essentially being a massive reminder of everyone's mortality. Because hey, if some top-dog died in an instant during some skirmish with barely any reward, how easily could the average soldier, or scavenger die? It was a scary thing, from an IC perspective. Scarier than seeing Ramos or another leader get headshot, sent flying 50 feet away (because gmod), see 2 guns fly out from his body, followed up by twelve scavs running towards his loot at mach 6.
 
Feb 28, 2018
591
Honestly not knowing your fate when going into a gunfight with drones is better than knowing you will win.
Gives the feeling of an actual survival situation, and you might type your /me's with a little more creativity, for example in Serbia I usually fired semi auto at drones legs to slow them down, and to conserve ammo, because of this I survived the server without refilling my AR ammo once, I even ended with about 5 mags left of AR ammo and 100 shells of shotgun ammo.
In normal TRP I wouldn't really give a shit and I would just rush and blast a 800 off a roof with my USAS, or 60-Watt, as ammo there is common as hell, and If I usually shoot first I win.
Why I love Siberia more, since I knew I could fuck up and die at any given moment, and rushing just a 600 would be a suicide action.
 

Benji Dooble

Happily Married
Jun 1, 2015
6,133
Identity
All I will say about bandits and stuff, and I didn't have any "stickup" experience while out and about, is that you sometimes want to vet people before you put them into antagonistic roles.

I don't want to derail the thread from Siberia, but there was a seemingly similar case going on between the bandits / Castellum players (albeit not as severe) and those who were playing the National Guard during the Lafayette Campaign. For those who recall that case, a lot of the confusion that emerged from that involved some players hopping on NG characters that they got authorized and sorta just screwing around with them.

In this case it was more of some sloppy PVP etiquette, like moving long distances uphill without actually telegraphing your action to do that. And yeah I'll be more direct, but one case that miffed me was where I spent some turns setting up a sniper position to get a flank during the Castellum battle. I think I telegraphed taking aim at somebody (I didn't specify who), only for the team I was aiming at to turn around OOC afterwards, run to cover away from me without an action (stopping), then jumping down from that cover (stopping again), and then moving a third time out of my line of sight.

To me that seemed like somebody made three move actions to dramatically break line of sight before I could even type up a /me that indicated they were a target by shooting in their direction.

Tbh though I think part of that is not only PVP but moreso movement etiquette. I've seen that stuff on the main server before too where people cover long distances (even when encumbered with heavy kit).
Lack of movement emotes was a problem on both sides from what ive seen
 

Shia

Member
Mar 15, 2018
52
Identity
Honestly not knowing your fate when going into a gunfight with drones is better than knowing you will win.
Or lose, because some new automaton is being introduced, or something like that. Free-form stuff for battles seems cool, in general.
 
Dec 25, 2015
4,007
Dave may have blocked the ideas previously but Siberia also proved you can very much keep the tone you want to see while accommodating for the fact the guy is going to jump on and do S2K's now and again.

Dave was getting on and getting involved, even for three days. That's a pretty big positive.
 

Shia

Member
Mar 15, 2018
52
Identity
Dave may have blocked the ideas previously but Siberia also proved you can very much keep the tone you want to see while accommodating for the fact the guy is going to jump on and do S2K's now and again.

Dave was getting on and getting involved, even for three days. That's a pretty big positive.
Here's hoping the way things went changed up some people's perception on how TRP should be. Certainly did for me.

also ur short
 
Nov 16, 2016
417
Dave may have blocked the ideas previously but Siberia also proved you can very much keep the tone you want to see while accommodating for the fact the guy is going to jump on and do S2K's now and again.

Dave was getting on and getting involved, even for three days. That's a pretty big positive.
 
Sep 22, 2012
2,705
All I'm saying is that if you can keep some of that grit from the RR on the reg server, ala, Take away everyone's plot armor, I think you'd see people embrace TRP a bit more.
 

Grogrock

Senior Member
Jul 1, 2018
220
Identity
I don't get the whole S2K argument either tbh. You can still break up tense S2RP moment-to-moment stuff with S2K once in awhile while retaining a dire tone. It really is about tone management, not the actual gameplay stuff.
 
Feb 28, 2018
591
I don't get the whole S2K argument either tbh. You can still break up tense S2RP moment-to-moment stuff with S2K once in awhile while retaining a dire tone. It really is about tone management, not the actual gameplay stuff.
Alot of situations in Siberia was fucking fantastic without S2K, could you imagine the final battle being S2K? Or when the horde invaded the EFF base? It would have been extremely boring
 
Dec 25, 2015
4,007
Honestly everything boils down to removing the plot armour, at its core.

People died in both major battles, and even minor ones - and it had weight and impact. TRP got boring because it didn't have that - nobody wanted to lose their rank so nobody willingly took a death.
 

elf

Senior Member
Nov 30, 2018
330
while i fell asleep for the majority of the s2k bandit conflict in day 1, i'd have loved to have seen more bandit influence and gravity s2rp. they're pivotal in helping to emphasize the wasteland atmosphere, and just how bad it is in a lawless land ruled by machine. would've been really cool to see major eff/town conflict with bandits. it was there for a bit, but it being a focal point could have been extremely interesting. i think it's just me and granted i wasnt' there for the latter half of day 1, but man an antagonistic conflict chronicling the fight between man vs. self before machine is an unexplored faucet of trp (large in part to tc plot-armor and always winning antics) that has SO much potential and i'd love to see it help build it if a part 2 ever happens ( please :) )

other than that though, this was a fantastic rr, and to me, it felt like what trp should have been from a depth and narrative standpoint. need more of this asap.
 

Benji Dooble

Happily Married
Jun 1, 2015
6,133
Identity
As bandits during saturday we setup a trap where one of us played the injured survivor and we hid waiting to strike. One small band of survivors rolled in and began investigating the scene and as we moved in on them a lot more folks finally made it over. Attila got shot and we were mostly routed entirely. That was probably when a good shootout between gray-good and gray-evil could have occured but there weren't enough of us bandits online and just after that we became collaborators.

Maybe we can try that again for a part two, maybe not.
 
Feb 28, 2018
591
As bandits during saturday we setup a trap where one of us played the injured survivor and we hid waiting to strike. One small band of survivors rolled in and began investigating the scene and as we moved in on them a lot more folks finally made it over. Attila got shot and we were mostly routed entirely. That was probably when a good shootout between gray-good and gray-evil could have occured but there weren't enough of us bandits online and just after that we became collaborators.

Maybe we can try that again for a part two, maybe not.
I wouldn’t mind bandits being one of the main enemies if a part 2, with MIR being a threat.
I’m sure bandits in Siberia would be hostile as hell considering their environment
 
Nov 16, 2016
417
while i fell asleep for the majority of the s2k bandit conflict in day 1, i'd have loved to have seen more bandit influence and gravity s2rp. they're pivotal in helping to emphasize the wasteland atmosphere, and just how bad it is in a lawless land ruled by machine. would've been really cool to see major eff/town conflict with bandits. it was there for a bit, but it being a focal point could have been extremely interesting. i think it's just me and granted i wasnt' there for the latter half of day 1, but man an antagonistic conflict chronicling the fight between man vs. self before machine is an unexplored faucet of trp (large in part to tc plot-armor and always winning antics) that has SO much potential and i'd love to see it help build it if a part 2 ever happens ( please :) )

other than that though, this was a fantastic rr, and to me, it felt like what trp should have been from a depth and narrative standpoint. need more of this asap.
We appreciate this feedback and we will admit that day one was pretty hectic. I wish I could of took action to cut the s2k out but... forces beyond my comprehension were at work that fateful day. As for the human vs human bandit conflict, we made that our focus on the second day primarily after taking down the chopper. Our numbers weren't as big as they were on day one obviously, so I'm not sure many people witnessed the onslaught. If everyone is down for a part 2 then we'll try our best to expand greatly upon the human conflict.
 

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