PK authorization reforms and enforcement

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mattcos, Jan 14, 2019.

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  1. mattcos

    mattcos Senior Member

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    I've recently realized that TRP for whatever reason lacks the old HL2RP system of PK authorization where three admins not involved in the situation are required to authorize a PK. I guess its easy to ignore if your not directly affected by it but instead of talking about why this was forgotten, why it isn't enforced, why it isn't implemented, and a dozen other questions I will address in this post WHY it should return.

    No one is perfect as we all know and I'll admit that I'm not perfect and I'm sure a few others will agree that everyone has areas where they struggle unless your @Abaddon. When you combine this with positions of power, stress, and bias it is only natural that situations are not always handled properly. Bias is natural of course and the only way you can really stop it is to take a step back and let someone else handle the problem.

    I've always found that the system itself is sound and admired it. There are flaws of-course with anything and behaviors that this type of system is meant to hamper may happen regardless. Though at least there would be a standard and this standard could be enforce; people found circumventing or abusing this standard could be punished.

    I know things are different now than they were before to put it mildly, but I think this system worked then and should work now. I think that in the heat of what goes on in servers a little enforcement would go a long way to improving things. This doesn't have to do with any specific situation or outcome and I'd like to hear thoughts on this.

    E: With City RP slated for a return I especially support a return of this system for that setting so that we don't fall into the same traps as before.
     
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    #1 mattcos, Jan 14, 2019
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  2. Abaddon

    Abaddon Abadman
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    I have a draft post I'm writing up at the minute, in regards to not only PK authorizations but a wide spectrum of authorizations, including templates, required amount etc. etc.

    I mentioned it several days ago in the admin discord as I have been inundated with PMs not only in regards to PKs (which have spiked massively since the NR-TC incident) but several other requests too.

    I'll be finishing it once I'm done with work later.

    Ps. I'm perfect.

    Ps.s. This system has been in place for a while, it's just not used regularly as it's all behind the scenes in the TRP Auth boards.
     
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  3. Rabid

    Rabid Legend

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    I was just about to say that beyond the obvious like Infs, PK auths on a personal level are a once-in-a-blue-moon affair because one side, for all intents and purposes, can only PK on negligence grounds and given the nature of the server (it revolves more around conflict) what those are is incredibly lax compared to what you could get slapped for on HL2.

    But obviously adding another human faction into the mix has shaken things up like it did back when the Coalition were kicking around last year.
     
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  4. Enraged

    Enraged Mana Addict
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    The same PK standards are still enforced through and through.
    What's probably the most different between HL2 & TRP is that a lot of PK's just happen during RP due to any number of reasons on TRP, where as on HL2 they're usually planned out beforehand by someone due to their character seeking vengeance on another poor soul.

    If someone feels their character death during an RP situation is unfair then they can still submit an auth thread and we'll sit down and go over it.
    Hopefully this provided some clarity.
     
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    #4 Enraged, Jan 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  5. posepsi

    posepsi actually el pepso

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    Has anyone actually had a character force PKed lately? From what I've seen most have been self inflicted. Unless people are just much more graceful about letting go of their characters than they used to be.
     
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  6. A Blaze of Glory

    A Blaze of Glory Subtlety is overrated.

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    Oh look, I found my two cents, allow me to display them to you all.

    Forced PK's outside of negligence grounds are dumb. You know what happens when we force PK characters we just don't like, or just don't get along with? We lose any and all interesting characters that are able to generate conflict and develop over time, the people we're left with are the characters everybody likes, the uninteresting, nice to everyone, no conflict characters.
    That shit would suck.
    Conflict (and the characters that create conflict) are where you get your interesting, complex, and even morally gray choices that can be A) extremely helpful in developing your character and the characters you interact with and B) fun as Hell.
    You start cutting stories short by PK-ing characters with a lot of interesting worldviews left to tell, backstory to explore, and traits to develop into and out of, you're going to stop getting those characters and the server as a whole is going to feel it over time. People don't like that shit.

    Some characters won't die. Many will. That's how it goes. You clamp down on ending stories short to meet some arbitrary death quota, people are going to get pissed, and we're going to lose people who come here to do the one thing this community was made for, and that's to roleplay. PK's are a narrative tool, use them like one.
     
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  7. scumbo

    scumbo good natured

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    what about our thing written on pk and pi guidelines
    aka this thing
    https://www.taconbanana.com/threads/pk-pi-guidelines.29932/

    anyways! that writeup has been a faint tradition carried over between most of our servers and iterations- a reform may be in the works but we'll keep you guys notified if anything changes. regardless, on the topic of reform, i want to express the importance of avoiding cookie cutter responses because in some cases a PK is unneccessary, and in others a PK should have taken place

    it's vital that discretion is a tool we use when deciding whether to go one way or the other
     
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    #7 scumbo, Jan 14, 2019
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  8. mattcos

    mattcos Senior Member

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    First I'll say that there is a very fine line between negligence and necessity and something viewed as negligence could be another thing. Since the rule set does exist I hold the opinion that it is not enforced and like I said in the original post I'm not going to go into reasons why. The goal of this thread is to get an unequivocal "Yes" to the idea itself for use in the future leaving no grey areas and allowing players who feel they've been handled poorly to reference those rules. However, I believe that the issue of bias in that rule set is still present and bias to can be a factor so even though myself would consider the following as a common sense unwritten rule I would still like consideration of its formal addition "If your involved in a situation allow others to handle the issue of PKs".

    One thing I will say that strays from the goal of this post is that yes TRP is a different setting from HL2 and a lot of the things that happened on HL2 do not happen here and the antagonist dynamic is different. However, With the addition of another human antagonist faction I think since they're not as @Flower says "An admin faction" so they should seek unbiased PK authorizations like everyone else. Though maybe they do with auth boards and /a's as one might expect and that's swell. Keep it up. E: And of course they've rarely PK'd anyone.
     
    #8 mattcos, Jan 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  9. RevivalAD

    RevivalAD Banned

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    Tbh I like the way it is now. I just hate when people come back to life all the time. Hard to react to ic.

    Also NR definitely isn't just some normal player based group lol. There's a LOT of admin influence, given most of their higher ups are admins.
     
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    #9 RevivalAD, Jan 21, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  10. Ammo

    Ammo Jason Killer does not exist....
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    What does that make tc and skynet then
     
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  11. McDankus

    McDankus Senior Member

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    Given 90% of those admins barely if not ever RP on their NR characters you know so little my sweet summer child

    If I remember correctly I was told by folks (Including some staff) that you can't PK command characters unless they self PK because they're admins. So if we're talking admin influence over other factions, I'd look at what Flower said and look at Tech-Comm for instance.
     
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  12. Ammo

    Ammo Jason Killer does not exist....
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    If anything the admin characters are there entirely to push plot and ensure people do what they are supposed to do.

    I find it dubious that you have so much to say about something you have so little interaction with.

    Almost like you really don’t know what you’re talking about. However, this thread isn’t really the place for you to entertain uninteresting echo chambers.

    This thread is about pk reform not RevivalAD’s opinions.
     
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  13. RevivalAD

    RevivalAD Banned

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    Those aren't normal player-based groups. I'm not sure what your point is.

    We don't have to talk about NR, but I think PK's are fine the way they are. I've just noticed a lot of characters mysteriously coming back to life with no good IC reasoning.

    Also; just to point out, I have nothing against any of you and your NR group, this is a conversation for another thread, I was just tossing in a little "aside" fact in response to the latest response at the time.
     
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  14. Wizard

    Wizard Actually a wizard.
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    Make NLR great again.
     
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