Moving Forward

wester

Kiruclanz 2.0
HLNA Admin
Mar 7, 2015
2,632
While I know that the chaos that unfolded last night is fresh in everyone's mind, I'm going to try and put my own opinions aside in favor of bringing Halo back where it needs to be.

To get right to the point, we're closing down Halo for two weeks, and doing a soft relaunch. Same characters, similar story, but a hiatus to try and get it right this time, and dive directly into what people want: the Covenant.

If it wasn't abundantly clear already, the server had serious flaws that were left alone, and I hold myself accountable for that as much as anyone else on, or formerly on the team. We planned for a Random Roleplay server, and were wholly unprepared for what Halo eventually (and inevitably) evolved into, both as a result of player hype, and our own naivety.

We've realized that a lack of communication between the admin team and the larger playerbase was a huge problem. People were logging in to find us on a new planet, a different map, and no idea what we were doing there. We're going to try to solve these issues, and in order to do that, we need a serious and open dialogue with the people who keep the serving running: the players.

If you played on the server, or even have a passing interest, we'd like your feedback in improving Halo. What you liked, what you didn't like, and what you'd like to see going forward. This isn't a strict format either, just guiding questions.

I hope, personally, that this whole fiasco hasn't turned people off of the server itself. There's a lot of potential in the setting, and plenty of people who put their heart and soul into making it work. It's an uphill battle, but we're willing to give it a try.
 

Polioman

Legend
Mar 14, 2018
1,315
I am gonna say for starters to keep anything we want to say about someone in like an admin auth request or in a private convo. Should be a clear thing that divides a public problem and a private problem and how each can be solved differently.
 

wewlad

Unverified Alt
Mar 29, 2020
444
So, for all intents and purposes, Charlie Company is on two weeks leave? Good enough. Hope the work you guys do ends up blowing away the dissenting opinions. After what transpired, Halo deserves a honest to God chance. And a covenant relaunch is exactly what is needed.
 

Kinsman

Zealot
HLNA Admin
May 21, 2013
777
Will the server be shut down entirely? Or will it remain up for people who want to play?
 

Klyppen

Moderator
Oct 24, 2015
133
Is this the time when the admin team will be working on the rank structure, as I understand that was something being talked about. As well, is there going to be people moved around in ranks that need to be filled, or are we picking things up right where they were left, and the spots will be filled organically?
 

Foxicus

Zealot
Mar 6, 2018
810
What I had initially mentioned to Ammo Ammo the other night was two main things.

One: An ability to play people outside of being a Marine. Being a soldier usually ends up coming with a certain mindset, template, mentality, what have you. When you limit everyone to play a soldier, some people can see it as bottlenecking or too narrow. Yes, we NEED Marines because it's Halo and we're fighting the covenant, but can we have an ability to play non-combs or civilians as permanent characters? That way, they aren't treated like disposable event chars and can actually pal around like refugees and whatnot.

Personally, I'd LOVE to do Scientists, and work towards making events around Alien archeology and what not.

Two: Roster shuffle. I know we don't have a lot of people on right now - and that's what could really not have this work. But similar to HL2's version of the apartments, shuffle everyone RANDOMLY into various Fireteams and Squads (Fireteams are 4 people each in the Marines, and Squads are made up of 3 fireteams, Platoons made up of 3 Squads). Now you have a system in which people can start getting RP with random people and are going to get out of their comfort zone. It's up to you how you handle this; and it may be advantageous to make it be like Wizard's thing where it's by a voluntary 'yeah put me in for the raffle' sort'a jam, that way you're not forcing anyone into anything, and you're getting an accurate number of who's really wanting to stick around.

All my other points, such as Hurr Hurr War Crime and whatnot have already been addressed. I just hope DiBen's forthcoming change about putting an end to that memeshtick is going to stay. Please.
 

erkor

Level 60 Combine Worgen
HLNA Admin
Media Team
Nov 27, 2019
571
ive already lost most of my interest but heres some delirious just-before-bed takeaways

give covenant.
make the story a halo story, not an insurrection quelling. theres a reason none of the games featured it -- because the point of interest was the rings; forerunner technology, the discovery of ancient civilizations, and the alien society obsessed with collecting their relics.

i had a medium event cooking up in my google docs but i scrapped it after realizing i probably wont get on anyways but i wish whoevers left to work all the luck in the world i guess lol
 

Robe

some fucking pog fuck
Sep 30, 2012
2,057
i enjoyed the combat, be it s2k or s2rp. the downtime is the problem, keeping people occupied on the ship with training or otherwise. that's why i offered to do stuff in garrison whenever the unit was having downtime between the eventual approach of the covenant and the hostage situation. training can be monotonous, or it can be done correctly by engaging roleplayers. i also felt like there was a disconnect between pre-established officers/ncos vs player characters. the big part there is accountability.

admin characters routinely did things that constituted war crimes, but suffered no penalty. however, two player characters were reduced in rank infront of the whole company for potentially having committed a war crime. it feels like something of a double standard, which yes, exists in the actual military at times but that's for smaller stuff. for example, an e6 can get in a DUI and probably get his e7 and still leave service with an honorable discharge. however, an e6 probably can't get away with shooting a surrendering dude in full view of his entire company. there are certainly some 'for the boys' moments on deployments and shit like that, but there are limits to those too. speaking of the boys, progression is another issue.

a lot of people last night complained about promotions. granted, the person who was critiquing the system went without being promoted for a good reason. despite that, he's right. of course, you could argue that some characters have to go above and beyond to show that they're leadership material, instead of simply asking for it. in reality, units can be supplemented from the outside by transfers in. while that does seem a bit cheap and certainly screws people over that wanted position, it happened frequently anyway with replacement characters in hl2. that's a dodgy issue and it's hard to come up with a concrete solution. the ranking structure also brings up a point of organized squads and platoons.

i think that we should keep going the way we were previously with that, at least at this time. you absolutely cannot count on everyone being on at the same time, and having to potentially put that crutch in there is debilitating to rp. you could argue that people can cover down for absences, but at that point, why even go through the trouble of organizations. people brought up the boot camp black vs green vs blue as an example of competition. in the military, that competition essentially ends there at company level antics. after bootcamp, the joe to either side of you is your brother. there is no faux rivalry. if anything, the rivalry is an underlying issue with who gets promoted amongst the NCOs and aspiring NCOs, some unspoken climb that really should be just that: underlying and not some blatant race for power. this is resolved usually with performance and evaluations.

in terms of that, i had created a system to introduce the Army on reach with cross training for the EIB, which is an evaluation for a highly prestigious award for exceptional Infantrymen (or Riflemen, in the Marine Corps). this was meant to give those people who wanted a leadership position a chance to get that leg-up, if they think that their character would perform well. it was meant to create that competition that people want, which is truly more individual than group based. a company level identity is a company level identity. i know ive reverted to that point but i just wanted to stress it so y'all understand. i don't know where that stands but it's likely cancelled and im fine with that.

as for this break, it sounds like a good call. everyone is a bit tense and honestly i dont think many people want to rp on halo right now. it's likely trp will see a small resurgence, to say if that'll stick after halo's launch isn't entirely out of the question and we'll likely see another divide but that's another thread or discussion entirely.

see you fuckers in two weeks, maybe.
 
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Belowthebelt

Member
Aug 19, 2011
712
It's good to see you guys going in the right direction. The main gripe was that if felt like you were juggled from one place to the next with little to no context on where you are. You can get away with it in TRP because everyone knows that their based in California but when you can jump from one planet to the next it's incredibly hard to figure out what's going on. Also creating content revolving around the area you are in. If you're in a barren planet that hasn't rained for over a hundred years every event made should reflect that.

Also more sci-fi vibes. It lacked that completely.

Jumping to the covenant is the right move as people play this to make their own character within the Halo setting.

And just like Foxicus Foxicus said we need to have over avenues to explore outside of being a soldier. A scientist role is a good idea.

Overall lads, take your time. If it's going to take more than two weeks do it. Their is no major deadline as we'd much prefer a solid plan of attack than winging it and hoping for the best. You've all been stressed out about this so take your time and know that we're grateful for all the handwork you've put into it.
 

Anatoli K.

Member
Apr 29, 2020
66
Frankly, I think I enjoyed the Insurrection, but looking back there were its low points and the baseline of general good. I don't exactly see the setting jumping because we all have adequate time to assert ourselves into the setting and while people may consider the lack of sci-fi elements crippling to their enjoyment it shouldn't be their excuse. But I've never played halo, ever, so I might be a bit biased in that I just happen to enjoy a 'half assed' tnb milsim to which others cannot agree.

I used to believe adding the Covenant would trigger a resurgence in interest, we would reach at least 40s on an average day like on Boot and finally get to that beautiful 86 cap like on opening, but now I can't exactly get a good feel of what would change if they wouldn't accept HRP in its original state, as it was now. Maybe we're all burnt out and don't want to admit it, that we wanna pull a little cognitive dissonance and believe in improvement just because of change.

Regardless, just ignoring the criticism, we had a good go and I'm gonna be there at the re-launch and onwards from there. And as another thing, as Baby had said, 66 people watching this thread, get busy rping or get busy living. ;))
 

wester

Kiruclanz 2.0
HLNA Admin
Mar 7, 2015
2,632
Will the server be shut down entirely? Or will it remain up for people who want to play?
password locked.

if you need anything like descriptions or whatever, message someone on the team.
 

Bozo

Thread locked.
Moderator
May 21, 2011
569
I think starting off on a clean slate will be great for people. A fresh start that addresses the issues people had while also improving on what went right.

I'm with this setting till the end of the line.
 

Ammo

Jason Killer does not exist....
Feb 12, 2012
3,385
During the overhaul, we will be working on the idea of having non-combatant roles during the Reach event line.
 

The End

Supreme Commander of the GAR
May 22, 2011
9
Even though I don't intend on coming back at this time, I'm going to repeat what I said in the other thread. I don't like to post problems without offering solutions, and looking for solutions was something that I intended to do when I said this, but hopefully you guys can figure something out.

To start, I want to say that I do enjoy the server/setting and the biggest issue for me is typically "Where are the people to RP with?" As long as there's characters for mine to talk with, I'm typically good. But there is a fundamental issue with the server.

One of the initial steps of character creation is the question of "What are my character's motivation/goals?" This lays the basic foundation for your character's decision making throughout their existence. Typically speaking, regardless of how simple of a motivation there is, most settings still allow for drastically different pathways for characters to reach them. This results in natural dynamics of conflict and alliances as different characters strive to reach their goals. This system is directly halted on Halo RP because regardless of motivations, the first step is chosen for every character: Join the military.

It then basically becomes impossible to divert from this path because your character is locked into following the instructions of those above them and the server inherently is not very conducive to personal goals aside from basic military things such as promotions. I think that has been a cause for a lot the "sameness" of characters that is typically criticized where a lot of them don't stand out or conversations are always about the same topics (hating/killing innies). Personally, I feel like I'm struggling and failing to make Mier stand out for these sames reasons (and also simply not succeeding as much as I should as a writer).

This is a hard thing to correct with the strictness imposed by the setting/server but I do think we need to look into ways of opening those pathways of personal motivation back up, or at the very least, encourage characters that try to pave their own way within the lore. I will consider such possibilities myself and suggest them as they come to me.
 

Bav

New Blood
Jun 11, 2020
3
Personally, I prefer passive over events. That being said, I still like events, but my biggest gripe is the lack of communication of when events are. I'm in the discord, and as far as I know, there is no HaloRP section. Maybe there ought to be at least a channel to announce when events are?

I also get on during the evenings, EST time. I dunno if the majority of the playerbase is located elsewhere, but most of the time it's at a low point during then. Every server I've ever been on has problems with player retention after the hype for an event wears off, and I honestly don't know how to solve that. I don't think it's a matter of "the passive is boring in general", I think some people just don't like passive.

I'm pretty new to this server and I only recognize a few people, so I don't have any gripes about the playerbase/administration so far. I'm also entirely out of the loop as to what happened last night.
 

The Scamming Fox

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2016
228
commenting one what rob put, that double standard is basically why I waved goodbye for the time being, along with the other crock of shit that I got from that. I'm never against a demotion, and it'd have felt alright if done earlier one- but considering the fact with how much time I put in and ended up getting dicked for the sudden U-turn in the insurrection going from suicide surrenders to suddenly a have-to-be-respected combatant- well, irritating.

I know I'm known for fits and cases of anger but instead of letting that go on or have it stew while I played, I simply stepped back- and it seems for the better as this would've been a waste of my own time to put further effort in for lack of even OOC respect to talk to someone. Talk to the people if you think it's some OOC warcrime meme, or another issue. Don't continue that admin-character treatment.

The community certainly isn't dead, but I do hope it can pick itself up back from this shitty-hole it's slowly been made into. They've got great people here, but that's usually most of the reason to stay, sadly. Here's hoping you can get HRP doing well again, and possibly swing some opinions around.
 

Nat Attack

Legend
Dec 28, 2014
3,661
My issue with Halo and why I don't play is that the administration knowingly chose a setting which is purely militaryRP but then decided to dumb down the complexities of the military in an exchange for ease of accessibility to new players. I understand why the team chose this path. Having a server that's easier for new players to jump into makes sense and it really worked for TRP. Here's the issue though. Halo doesn't have anything other than military so if we're going to do military RP then we just have to run into the wall full force. Halo is a military setting so lets embrace it. The complexities of military structure and different branches can lead to far more interbranch conflict and rivalry. The larger the infrastructure of the server becomes then more opportunities for diversified roleplay we will get in exchange. We're sacrificing ease of accessibility for a more diversified and interconnecting military system. I know militaryRP isn't for everyone but the pain we're having now is, at least in my opinion, that non-militaryRPers don't want to play because they don't like militaryRP, and milsimmers don't want to play because there isn't enough variety and accuracy to the setting. Lean into the military aspect. Embrace different MOSes, create actual platoons within the company and allow other people to be promoted to 1st and 2nd lieutenant. Get more people into the Navy part rather than just marines and use the proper ranking structure. You'll be able to breed more Officer-NCO conflict, smaller scale loyalty to service, and maybe even some good old fashioned A Few Good Men-esque scenes with commanders ordering some good old fashioned war crimes
I originally posted this on the Mads thread as a meme but it does sum up my opinions & criticisms of Halo at this point.

I feel like a lot more interesting character-to-character conflict can be written if we just smash our head through the brick wall that is militaryRP. We can create a lot more complexity and help to spur conflict between characters with this move. Soon we're going to get the covenant which is great but until the Arbiter goes rogue and defects to the UNSC we're not going to have much roleplay with them outside of prisoners. Until we move to that point it might be prudent to develop the military more fully so that we can breed interservice rivalries and the conflicts between people with different MOS.
This is still my position. I've approached the team with it but I'd like to know what the rest of the community's thoughts are on this idea moving forward.
 

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