dumb & dumber

[malina?]

OOC Names:
Tooly the Kin
CxDAWGx69

SteamID:
STEAM_0:1:39894177
STEAM_0:0:68441859

Character Names:
Jeb Murphy
Odin Wellbrick

What happened:
there's s2tards and then there's this. i wasn't on today because i'm trying to fix my sleep schedule, but the logs here made me pretty furious.
these guys have a total misunderstanding of what rp is all about and don't particularly care to learn. they're not here to join a hl2rp. remember when some admins offered to help out with containing the shitters a bit? this is a great place to start, guys. these two will undeniably drop the quality of s2 and make things that much less enjoyable than they already aren't with the main bulk- and worst of all, they can bullshit-talk long enough to find followers. if they do, we'll have a much bigger problem.
it wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue if they were fine with atleast listening and reasoning, but these guys are so far beyond reason and have such a warped, clockworky view of roleplay that i don't think it's possible to do anything here that isn't administrative action.

Time it happened:
today

Pictures/Proof:

Spoiler

Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Anyone active?
'Chef': [OOC] yep
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I came here to see if resistance was a thing andf if I could join it?
'Chef': [OOC] yeah, resistance is a thing, but this isnt an active hour
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Ah
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] So are you like a resistance leader? IC I would like to joing the resistance
'Chef': [OOC] no, there arent leaders. It's not organized like CCA
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] Anyone have guns for sell?
'Chef': [OOC] dont buy guns
'Chef': [OOC] well some people will sell them but most people wont
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] Why shouldn't I buy?
'Chef': [OOC] you can, but most people just dont want to sell guns
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] Oh
'Chef': [OOC] there are a lot of ways to get them through roleplay though so dont worry about it
'Chef': [OOC] someone will probably just give you one at some point
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] k
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] do other people get guns?
'Chef': [OOC] what do you mean
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] How do other people get guns?
'Chef': [OOC] basically they come into existance by admins spawning them
'Chef': [OOC] and after that they're just given to trustworthy people
'Chef': [OOC] taken away from trouble makers
Fletch: [OOC] could've sworn this was a hl2rp server and not a csgo server
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] At random locations?
'Chef': [OOC] no, for roleplay events
'Chef': [OOC] like scavenging events and combat
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] Oh
Fletch: [OOC] guns aren't just spawned in wherever, it's not hl2 deathmatch either. if you're just looking to grab a gun and shoot something then you might want to stick to darkrp servers, honestly
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] I want it for the ressistance.

'Chef': [OOC] be realistic. Would your character be able to kill just because he doesnt like the combine
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] I not shooting them, I'm selling guns to people to shoot them.
'Chef': [OOC] so you want to be given guns so you can sell them and make a profit
'Chef': [OOC] we dont do that in the outlands
Fletch: [OOC] i want to die
Ethan Long: [OOC] Called: Buisness.
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] In a sense.
'Chef': [OOC] if you want to have a good time here, do not worry about credits or scripts
'Chef': [OOC] that is the best advice I can give you
Fletch: [OOC] mate this server is for writing characters and trying to tell stories, not sitting on top of a pile of guns and wads of cash
Fletch: [OOC] despite the impression a good number of players give off by showing theirs off at every opportunity, or carrying 20 of the things around at all times
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] Once again, my character is in it for the ressistance.
'Chef': [OOC] then do something useful. You said you wanted to make profit off of guns. That's hurtful to the resistance
Fletch: [OOC] selling guns to people for profit doesn't sound like doing it "for the resistance" to me
Fletch: [OOC] it sounds like war racketeering
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] I said in a sense.
Fletch: [OOC] how many senses are there? you either peddle guns or you don't peddle guns
'Chef': [OOC] dude just find your character a purpose
'Chef': [OOC] doing laundry, carrying heavy things, it doesnt matter. Just something useful that your character does to help the cuase
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Leave the man alone
'Chef': [OOC] we're helping him
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Its a game hoss
Fletch: [OOC] jesus christ
Fletch: [OOC] did a popular darkrp server just crash or something
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] This is my purpose(ressistance)
Fletch: [OOC] why though
Fletch: [OOC] like
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Oh yeah thats funny dude
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Super funny
Fletch: [OOC] if your boss is being a dick you don't go join the mafia and try bump his family off
'Chef': [OOC] be specific. Running around with a gun doesnt help
Fletch: [OOC] this is a roleplaying server, as in coming up with a character with feelings, motivations, hopes and dreams
Fletch: [OOC] not selling guns or beanies or shooting things because the cps called you a bad swear
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Or you could work on your real life character
Fletch: [OOC] uh, what
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] I'm not getting a gun without a client in the city.
'Chef': [OOC] also make a description man. You need a character, thats step one
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] This really shows it
Fletch: [OOC] if i wanted to be a fuckwit i would be. what he's talking about doing is not looked at in a positive light by people on this server so he either gets told about it gently now or he gets a lot worse for it later
Fletch: [OOC] by all means though continue to argue for the sake of arguing
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Whooey
'Chef': [OOC] odin if I were you I would take an hour on notepad and write up some ideas about who your character is until you have a life story
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Dude he's here to rp and not write an essay his character is him
Fletch: [OOC] that's not how it works hun
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] As in he puts himself into his character
Fletch: [OOC] rp means playing a character, not playing a video game where you get guns and shoot npcs
Fletch: [OOC] it also means not playing yourself
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He's not shooting anyone
Fletch: [OOC] because playing yourself isn't exactly roleplaying, is it
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Its better than acting like someone your not
'Chef': [OOC] jeb you dont get it
'Chef': [OOC] this is roleplay
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I do get it
'Chef': [OOC] you make a character that isnt you
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I do
'Chef': [OOC] and you play that character, not yourself
Fletch: [OOC] ...if that's your attitude then i don't think you're going to go well here either
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He is trying to imagine himself in the half life universe
'Chef': [OOC] you're supposed to imagine someone else in the half-life universe
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Just leave him alone and be nice to eachother
'Chef': [OOC] jeb, telling someone that they've got it wrong is the nice thing to do
Fletch: [OOC] then surely he'd be able to actually point out a reason he wants to do things beyond some vague platitude about the resistance?
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I don't see anything that says you can't be yourself
'Chef': [OOC] thats not roleplay
'Chef': [OOC] its just not
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Yeah it is
'Chef': [OOC] no, you're not playing a role, you're playing yourself
'Chef': [OOC] jeb do you know how much movies would suck if actors played themselves
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He's playing the role of himself but in the half life universe so you feel more immersed
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Dude it's his choice to roleplay as whoever he wants

e; i might just be a little too harsh but there's definitely no way to handle this ic if they're not even willing to listen on an ooc basis in the first place. they're literally not even playing characters, but themselves.

 

[shotcopper 9000]

I'm not really expecting a ban from this because it's TnB and half the regulars are scarcely any better, but Jeb's deliberate obstruction is really wearing my patience thin.

Jeb Murphy: [OOC] And his name isn't odin
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He just tries to act like he does everyday
'Chef': [OOC] that appears to be his name
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] In real life
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] No his real name
Fletch: [OOC] does he join the resistance and sell guns every day?
'Chef': [OOC] a name isnt enough
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] If he was in the half life universe I guess
'Chef': [OOC] no
'Chef': [OOC] absolutely not
Fletch: [OOC] why though? it's awful dangerous
'Chef': [OOC] if any of us were actually in the half-life universe we'd be in the city crying our asses off
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He doesn't care about what happens to him he wants to better humanity
Fletch: [OOC] oh come on
Fletch: [OOC] really
Fletch: [OOC] that's a bit of a reach
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] I'm just trying to raise an upriseing.
Fletch: [OOC] but why
Fletch: [OOC] how
Fletch: [OOC] with whom
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] And why is the resistance non organized?
'Chef': [OOC] well at least we now know that you aren't playing yourself
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] My character dosn't like goverment.
Fletch: [OOC] how are you going to convince scared people who have never shot a gun before to join your uprising and risk death?
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] His name isn't cole nelms is it?
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] all right what's the issue
'Chef': [OOC] we're just trying to help 2 new roleplayers
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Not at all
'Chef': [OOC] but they refuse to accept the idea that their character is not them
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I'm fine
Fletch: [OOC] we're trying to inform someone of the difference between here and like perp or rlrp or whatever, and one of them has taken it upon himself to be contrarian for the sake of it
'Chef': [OOC] they're playing heroic versions of themselves
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Take a look around
'Chef': [OOC] we have a term for that, Jeb and Odin. It's called a Mary Sue
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] all right well i'm just going to add onto this arguement and tell you right now that avatar playing is highly discouraged and it completely goes against the reason of the setting
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] You are in a room on a computer playing garry's mod.
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] So I'm not alloud to help make an upriseing?
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Stop arguing with strangers over a rp server and rp
Fletch: [OOC] you need to have a character with proper motivations
'Chef': [OOC] we were trying to help you but you wont accept that you arent the experienced roleplayers here
Fletch: [OOC] not just "he doesn't like government" or "the cps are mean"
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He can be motivated by whatever he wants
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] the purpose of this server is to create a realistic character who's goal in life may vary, but it should expand beyond 'i want to start an uprising because i hate the combine'
'Chef': [OOC] it has to be realistic
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] And he is anti government
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] You don't know him
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I do
Fletch: [OOC] loads of people don't like the government, doesn't mean they sell guns and try start an uprising, because they'll get their shit pushed in and they don't want to die
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] It's a rp server
Fletch: [OOC] exactly
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] And he would die for freedom
Fletch: [OOC] as in, you have a character with depth
Fletch: [OOC] not a cardboard cutout hero avatar
Fletch: [OOC] if you want that, like i said, darkrp is the place for it
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Ok
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] then his character dies with minimal development and it was pointless to make a layout for him, if he did at all
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] But let me ask you this do you have depth?
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] i don't have depth
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] my character does
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Enough depth to realise that you are playing garry's mod
Fletch: [OOC] that's irrelevant
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] it is
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Calm down
'Chef': [OOC] "Playing Garry's Mod" is a rather vague term
Fletch: [OOC] i am calm, mate
'Chef': [OOC] there's a lot to do here, not every gamemode is the same
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] we're discussing the nature of creating a character and the motives that said character has
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I'm trying to explain to you that it's an rp server and he want's to have fun just like you
'Chef': [OOC] you're a guest in this gamemode and you should either adapt to our style of play or find a gamemode that suits you better
Fletch: [OOC] right, but because it is an rp server, that means people expect believable, interesting characters
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] we're trying to inform a new player that creating a character who's motives go to the extent of 'i want to start an uprising' isn't something that's going to get him very far
Fletch: [OOC] not a player avatar
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] We are all people and can express themselves on a rp server however they want as long as it doesn't go against the rules
'Chef': [OOC] you're breaking rules
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] How?
'Chef': [OOC] by not playing a character
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I am
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] My characters motivation is an asshole goverment with no empathy for sad citezens.
'Chef': [OOC] jeb and odin are literally heroic versions of yourselves
'Chef': [OOC] that doesnt count as a character
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] No
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I'm defending my buddy
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Because he hasn't done anything wrong
'Chef': [OOC] you're hiding him under your umbrella of ignorance and denying him the privelege to be taught how to roleplay
'Chef': [OOC] way to defend your buddy
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Why am I here?
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] To guide him on how things work
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I'm no RP expert but I got a good idea
'Chef': [OOC] i feel like you might be misguiding him
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] i agree with chef
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I never told him to join the resistance but he wants to
'Chef': [OOC] thats not really the big problem
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He is a person I can't control him
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] you're misleading him by encouraging motives that don't contribute to the development of his character
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I just tell him what the rules say and how to RP
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I never encouraged him
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] But never discouraged him
'Chef': [OOC] tell you what odin
'Chef': [OOC] press f1 for the rules and how to rp
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He can do whatever the hell he wants on here I don't care

He knows what he's doing, he surely understands what we're saying, but he obviously has his own ideas about what does or doesn't constitute roleplay and character development and is making damn sure his mate (who he obviously actually knows, either through Steam or IRL) is going down that road with him.

 

[Robe]

I've tested their will to learn and they're about as stiff as a plank, I've also told them the error of using OOC chat as a means to convey IC messages and they still don't seem to understand any of it. I'm hesitant to go straight for a full on ban because they may be able to learn in the future, but I'm not opposed to sending them away for a good while until they do grasp that understanding.

 

[shotcopper 9000]

I think Jeb is the main problem here. Odin was arguing but as soon as Jeb piped up, that was it, there was no getting through at all.

 

[shotcopper 9000]

Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He gets in touble for it not me
'Chef': [OOC] thought you were his buddy
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I do think the gunrunning thing would be dumb but he has a client who want's them
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He can do whatever
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] well the fact that you two were using ooc to convey in character subjects, so you're both subject to being punished
Unknown command: wire_max_server_size_cache
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I'm trying to explain to these people that he can do whatever and I'm not the guy telling him to do it
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] and the fact that you're both being so abhorrent and uncoachable isn't really helping your case
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] Chef ask me when I joined.
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Real big words
'Chef': [OOC] when did you join?
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] Around the time you ask my about why I want guns.
Unknown command: wire_max_server_size_cache
Screenshot Requested
'Chef': [OOC] Odin I think you should go back to s1 and practice roleplaying on your own
'Chef': [OOC] i mean not on your own but without jeb
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He does on his own hoss
'Chef': [OOC] if you're willing to learn, you definitely can. I've been criticizing both you and Jeb but he's really the stubborn one and you're just victim of his misguidance
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] No
Fletch: [OOC] yes, actually.
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I know him in real life
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] You don't
Fletch: [OOC] you're not doing your mate any favours by trying to drag him down the same stubborn path as you
Odin Wellbrick: [OOC] Why don't you guys not want me to uprise so bad?
'Chef': [OOC] you can if you do it right
Fletch: [OOC] it's not that we don't want you to, it's that we want you to put some effort in
Fletch: [OOC] come up with an interesting story, interesting reasons
'Chef': [OOC] but it's a little ambitious to try that without really knowing the way things work here
Fletch: [OOC] not just you don't like the cops because they're "mean" and so you want to start a civil war where loads of people will die, possibly including yourself and your friends

H E L P

 

[malina?]

I'm hesitant to go straight for a full on ban because they may be able to learn in the future, but I'm not opposed to sending them away for a good while until they do grasp that understanding.

[Permabans aren't really permanent, they're meant to get people to go to the forums where they can learn and potentially improve or at the very least write an insincere apology.]

i don't want these guys gone for good myself, but i want them to rethink their presence on a roleplay server when they're this persistent about going against the very principles of it

 

[shotcopper 9000]

Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He's a new player who is learning the ways of the server
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] I am his friend but I am not his mother
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] He can do what he want's and get Pked or whatever
'Chef': [OOC] so stop trying to teach him how to roleplay and let him figure it out on his own
'Chef': [OOC] or with help of people who actually know what they're doing
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] It's his character not mine
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] really you should allow your character the chance to start on a clean slate where yes, he is technically oppressed by the combine, but allow him to pick up his own personal vendettas based on what occurs to him
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] All I did was show him commands and propper grammer in /me and stuff and showed him to the canals
Jeb Murphy: [OOC] Obviously he didn't use propper grammer here but still
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] you should really explain to him what makes a good character and the motives that one should have
'Chef': [OOC] you really shouldnt have your character meet up with another character who you only know ooc and then help him for no ic reason
Denys Balanchuk: [OOC] or if you didn't find yourself a good canidate, grab an admin

he's still arguing

 

[kiruclanz]

they may be able to learn in the future

have you ever seen players that are so unwilling to learn anything at any capacity such as these two goons?

i think it's safe to say these boys are lost causes and it's time you send them packing

 

[Robe]

well kiruclanz i had the same impression about you awhile back, but i suppose we saw how that turned out

anywho, i'm going to go ahead and lock this up. these two can enjoy their time away from the server and appeal when they're ready to grow up and be flexible with learning on how to roleplay.

 

[Pro1914]

'Chef' and Fletch tried to teach them. They just don't care.

 

[Chocolate]

I think that they needed to have an actual sitdown on the forms/sf or private spot with an admin. He's probablt just getting agotated that another player was telling him otherwise whilst not fully understanding our form of roleplay.

E: forgive the shit spelling, I'm on mobile.

 

[Fuzzy Wolfy]

I, too, liked being a self-insert when I was 13.

On a serious note, I don't see any particular reason to ban them right off the bat, but their mentality is worrying, and from what I've seen, they aren't getting any better.

If anything, they're getting spiteful for being confronted.

I recommend a temporary ban, redirect them to a guide - which they likely wont read, and if / when they return, we'll see.

I think that they needed to have an actual sitdown on the forms/sf or private spot with an admin. He's probablt just getting agotated that another player was telling him otherwise whilst not fully understanding our form of roleplay.

This was already done, I think. If not, do it.

 

[blooregardo]

If they can improve, a ban of any kind is far too heavy-handed.
Or if they really are irredeemable shitbags, a ban is far too premature.

 

[nec]

It's a ban to get them to the forums to explain themselves, nothing else.

 

[bennet]

If they're that poor go ahead and get them on here.

 

[blooregardo]

Which might happen, or they'll wait a few months to a year and bitch and moan and try and guilt trip people into an unban. That's not the only way of getting people on the forums.

 

[blooregardo]

unlocking so captain can reply. Any other posts besides captain's the admin team's or the accused party's, will be deleted, so save me the trouble.

 

[malina?]

idk whose verdict is going through, robs or yours
i'm a pessimist by nature and i'm personally for forcing them to change with a reason as opposed to kindly asking them to do so, but that's because i don't believe most people can see their mistakes, accept them and then do something about them. almost everyone i know, whether that's online or irl, will handwave things off, downplay them, forget them entirely or even try to twist words- sometimes to a very small and bearable extent, rarely to an extent as godawful as those two.

ross and whoever plays chef tried talking some sense into them with just words, not bans, and rob tried talking to one of them aswell- as an administrator, not just another player... and it still didn't work

 

[blooregardo]

I'll defer to rob since he knows more about the situation than I do. Locked.