Denied Cletus/Space Unban

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Cletus

Banned
Sep 15, 2019
40
Name (As well as any former aliases you can think of): Cletus, otherwise known as Space.
Steam ID: STEAM_0:1:515465785
What were you banned from?: Community of TnB
Original length of ban: Permanent
Time since ban: ~5 Years
Who banned you: Unknown
Reason for original ban: Saying Bekah needed to commit suicide next to her dead father.
Proof(If Applicable):
Reason for unban:

I'm not here to play as a victim or to beg for forgiveness. What I did and caused years ago is done and I will pay the price for it when the time comes. I am simply here at this point. Five years ago, I was a dark person in a dark place on this world. I attempted to use TnB and gaming for several years to cover up my own transgressions and demons, hoping that it would heal something in me. I was ignorant to do this. Over the course of my previous TnB career, I made several friends, though I also made a number of enemies and people who generally did not want to associate with me. I was known throughout TeamSpeak as a quick-fused hostile person. I would be able to go from laughing at jokes to wanting to rip someone's head off if I thought they were attempting to ridicule me, even over simple banter.

No matter what built up in the events of the day, the entirety of fault is mine. I claim it. I own it. I remember it. After getting banned from TnB, I messaged several people about trying to explain myself or tell the full story. The full story didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now. I was/am at fault. In my mind that is foremost at my stage in life, accountability for fault. After removal from TnB, my station in life didn't improve. I spent a considerable amount of time continuing to act out and be the same nasty person you all once knew. It was a cycle that was going to continue until I got help. Several years ago, I was voluntarily placed into an in-patient mental health facility. I stayed for around a month whilst attempting to figure my own mind and mental health out. I truly do believe at this point is when I started to shed the old skin of the Space. you all came to know. After leaving the facility, I continued to do outpatient care and speaking to a multitude of people. I went through several therapists and clinicians until I found one I truly enjoy, and can say she has changed my life. I'm about to reach my 4th year mark with her, which is amazing to say considering where I used to be.

Whilst wading through the shit that is my mind, my desire to play PC games diminished. I think due to the aspect that I wasn't attempting to cover anything in my real life up anymore, it became easier to step away. I stayed off for quite a bit. You all popped into my mind from time to time, especially the friends that I had, but I reached out privately and was able to reconnect with a few of you. That was joyous. I believe that is where my desire to come back stemmed from. I had recently been playing games a bit more a couple years back when I began to speak to more old friends. My job doesn't allow me the proper hours to delve into the virtual world as before, which I think is also a good thing. My decision to evade the ban wasn't light. It was something Tracy, my therapist, and I discussed through an entire session. I never looked at it as evading, even though that is blatantly what it was. My plan was to return and simply attempt to show people I had changed. I had thought that if I could only let people see that I was a different person, then I would reclaim the moniker of Space. and let people know. My justification was wrong. My deceit was wrong. On my first day back, last iteration of HL2RP, I was a nervous wreck. I thought that people would've figured me out and kicked out the door I'd be again. Over time, this feeling faded. I began to meet the new-to-me faces of TnB and found myself enjoying their company and roleplay again. I made new friends and began to truly enjoy these people. It was all a lie and I knew it. Every so often I would remember when they'd ask me to hop in discord or to do this, but i knew I'd reveal myself.

I only operated under wanting to show people my change into the person I knew I could be. It doesn't matter how good my intentions were, it was wrong. Throughout my return, I have only stuck to In-Game. I refused to get involved with Teamspeak, or as you all use Discord now, or any other sort of thing that I believe would be a negative impact on me. Teamspeak and other like forms of media were my downfall. I used them as devices to inflict the old nasty personality onto people like a weapon. I like to think, since my return, people have enjoyed Cletus. Across the old HL2RP iteration, TRP, HaloRP, and the fresh startup of this new iteration of HL2RP I was excited for, I hope I left a positive impact whether through roleplay, ooc fun, or general positivity. I hope I was able to make someone's day better, even for a moment.

If this is it, only wanted to say I accept whatever the outcome may be. I truly wish you all to know, whether you liked me or not, I own up to the person I used to be, but I've also taken far steps in attempts to leave behind that dark person you all once knew. To my new friends, I wish you all the best and I hope life treats you well. To my old friends, and those that knew me from before, it was nice seeing you still be successful here. I only want what is best for everyone and if that is me not returning, I understand. I won't attempt to evade again. This will be it. I accept that and wish you all the best.
 

The Scamming Fox

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2016
277
Identity
what the fuck.

no, you should stay the hell away, changed our not. anyone in-person who said that to anyone I know would promptly get plastered, you internet coward.

all anyone needs to do is read the reason for the ban and see anyone like this, even in their darkest times- is a terrible, disgusting person.
 

Uncle Ted

Banned
Mar 16, 2020
92
all anyone needs to do is read the reason for the ban
that's the problem. no one reads past the reason to see if the man's actually changed, or even put effort into the multi-paragraph apology.

there's no doubting that the ban reason was a heinous one, but this was five years ago. things are said in the heat of arguments or anger that're never really meant, and there's plenty room for change in that span of time. I won't pretend to understand the victim's perspective, but the whole 'people never change' sentiment is a really unhealthy nihilistic outlook on things. and it seems to be all-too common here.
 

The Scamming Fox

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2016
277
Identity
that's the problem. no one reads past the reason to see if the man's actually changed, or even put effort into the multi-paragraph apology.

there's no doubting that the ban reason was a heinous one, but this was five years ago. things are said in the heat of arguments or anger that're never really meant, and there's plenty room for change in that span of time. I won't pretend to understand the victim's perspective, but the whole 'people never change' sentiment is a really unhealthy nihilistic outlook on things. and it seems to be all-too common here.
I read it anyway before I posted. It's not that people never change- I don't see how this could be a positive risk to take. If it happens to another member, or anything even half as severe- it's not something to put dice on.
 

Nat Attack

Banned
Dec 28, 2014
3,721
Identity
We've had ******s on the admin team who've made fun of Flower's mom dying. They were never banned

We've also had a person make fun of another member after that member's friend died in the Pulse shooting. They were banned.

At this point there really is no precedent on what is and what isnt acceptable for this kind of situation. In a vacuum it would all be unacceptable but we're passed that point. More than anything I think what this will have to boil down to is whether you really have changed. Proving that that's the case will definitely effect the outcome of this ban. You were a cunt in the past and even with an unban you can probably expect that you'll not be getting a lot of leeway if you fall back into your old patterns (especially with how tnb has changed since you've been gone.)

It's also worth noting that Bekah hasnt played at tnb for about a year now.
 

scramble

good natured
Jan 1, 2015
2,520
Identity
She/Her
cletus/space has from my experience, not fallen into those old habits, not that i’ve seen him much, but he’s certainly exhibited the change you want to see and i think you should give him serious consideration for

but scramble, don’t you always make a case for forgiveness? and don’t you always say you do that every time, too?

look at his peaceful record playing as cletus as well as the shit above. few people have the balls to admit they have a serious need for help, let alone acquire it and make use of it. if you don’t want to reward that kind of resurrection, then maybe you don’t know what in-patient care is
 

Bozo

Thread locked.
Moderator
May 21, 2011
625
Seeing as this is a community-wide ban, this will have to be decided by the RDAs.

As respectable this may be, I'm still figuring out what you are trying to do. Would you like an old account back? Is this "coming clean," so to speak? Both?
 

Cletus

Banned
Sep 15, 2019
40
Seeing as this is a community-wide ban, this will have to be decided by the RDAs.

As respectable this may be, I'm still figuring out what you are trying to do. Would you like an old account back? Is this "coming clean," so to speak? Both?
I'm not really wanting anything, I guess? I'm just here, like I said. My goal, if this helps, is to simply show those that once knew me that I have changed and potentially form more new bonds and repair old ones, if that makes sense. I'm honestly not sure how to answer this, sorry. I'm not after an old account or anything, simply trying to let my actions and personality speak for itself in terms of changes I've experienced in the last 5 years. Sorry if this doesn't help.
 

Nat Attack

Banned
Dec 28, 2014
3,721
Identity
cletus/space has from my experience, not fallen into those old habits, not that i’ve seen him much, but he’s certainly exhibited the change you want to see and i think you should give him serious consideration for

but scramble, don’t you always make a case for forgiveness? and don’t you always say you do that every time, too?

look at his peaceful record playing as cletus as well as the shit above. few people have the balls to admit they have a serious need for help, let alone acquire it and make use of it. if you don’t want to reward that kind of resurrection, then maybe you don’t know what in-patient care is
I'm not for or against Space getting unbanned - it doesn't affect me. I was just stating that we've never really had a hard rule on this type of abuse or harassment or whatever you'd like to call it. We've always shown leeway on a case by case basis so I wanted to remind Space that this is very much just dependent on his actions.
 

baby

Legend
Dec 28, 2015
1,000
what the fuck.

no, you should stay the hell away, changed our not. anyone in-person who said that to anyone I know would promptly get plastered, you internet coward.

all anyone needs to do is read the reason for the ban and see anyone like this, even in their darkest times- is a terrible, disgusting person.
that's a very irrational argument you're making especially considering this community has a significant amount of people who have the same levels of history if not worse, yet have made the effort to come clean, reform and function in the community. i'm not speaking for everyone as i'm aware there are certain individuals circulating as nat attack and fuxx have kindly pointed out, but i don't think it's fair to a person trying to come clean like cletus/space here

personally, and don't take this lightly, i'd suggest reflecting on the response of the community towards your words before you finish digging that hole you dug for the case here without even so much as having a constructive discussion on it

--

anyways, i wouldn't be posting here if it wasn't about the unban appeal in general but the situation hits close to home in a few ways i won't discuss

and yet, the person in question has so far between our own interactions, shown nothing but the opposite of what they were in the past. it doesn't justify their actions in the past at all and i share the sentiment of some that it was a fucked up thing to do and an even fucked up position to put yourself in, but the behavior he's showing now justifies the community giving them a chance to continue on and progress towards bettering themselves rather than outcasting them like the many others in TnB's history, and potentially hindering that progress.

i've seen situations turn from horrible to tolerable then back to outright fucked because a chance wasn't given. i wouldn't want that sort of cycle continuing here especially with all we've seen
 
Last edited:

Kat_

pajama gal
Dec 15, 2014
1,167
Identity
She/Her
I mean, what you did was pretty shitty. But this is probably the most convincing case you could make in proving you've changed. Five years, and you went out and took care of yourself and your mental health? Nat's right, Bekah's not really around anymore.

If five years and active work to change your behavior isn't enough to affect character and make someone different, I don't really know what will ever prove it.

Whatever the outcome, allow me to say that I'm happy for you and the direction your life went.
 

feelsgoodman

Enter LE MONKE, a corpulent ape
Moderator
Dec 21, 2011
893
While talking about this, please keep in mind that the affected player having left the community has no bearing on the importance of an appealing user’s actions.

As for myself, this is a pretty tough case because you /did/ use an alt to avoid a (very just) ban for some time. Regardless of the honesty, it’s still duplicitous. Still, I can’t help but appreciate that you have received professional help for your issues and, judging by the lack of issues from you while you’ve been here, you certainly seem to have changed for the better.
 

Cletus

Banned
Sep 15, 2019
40
While talking about this, please keep in mind that the affected player having left the community has no bearing on the importance of an appealing user’s actions.
Don't know if I'm allowed to do this, but I want to keep this fresh in everyone's minds. Even though Bekah may be gone, which I wasn't aware of, please be open and honest with your opinions. If you don't feel like I should come back or that I may be a nuisance to you or others that you are friends with or know from the community, let it be known so that staff can consider this. I don't want anyone to feel like they haven't been heard or listened to on this.
 

The Scamming Fox

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2016
277
Identity
that's a very irrational argument you're making especially considering this community has a significant amount of people who have the same levels of history if not worse, yet have made the effort to come clean, reform and function in the community. i'm not speaking for everyone as i'm aware there are certain individuals circulating as nat attack and fuxx have kindly pointed out, but i don't think it's fair to a person trying to come clean like cletus/space here

personally, and don't take this lightly, i'd suggest reflecting on the response of the community towards your words before you finish digging that hole you dug for the case here without even so much as having a constructive discussion on it

--

anyways, i wouldn't be posting here if it wasn't about the unban appeal in general but the situation hits close to home in a few ways i won't discuss

and yet, the person in question has so far between our own interactions, shown nothing but the opposite of what they were in the past. it doesn't justify their actions in the past at all and i share the sentiment of some that it was a fucked up thing to do and an even fucked up position to put yourself in, but the behavior he's showing now justifies the community giving them a chance to continue on and progress towards bettering themselves rather than outcasting them like the many others in TnB's history, and potentially hindering that progress.

i've seen situations turn from horrible to tolerable then back to outright fucked because a chance wasn't given. i wouldn't want that sort of cycle continuing here especially with all we've seen
if they've got people that told someone that they should go kill themselves then they shouldn't be here either, simple as. Maybe you lot have some point in letting him back- yet the alt deceiving is a bit of an issue, yet that's not my main issue here. Could have him sit out another while due to the alt evasion but if anyone can give a response that he did do okay during the last time he was here, it'll be a boost nonetheless.

However, and this is something I want to clarify from my end. People can change, and all that- but this is a really an all-around hard to judge situation. Add to it the reason they were gone for five years or not being what it was, it's not exactly a feeling I sling for no reason about not wanting them to return. It doesn't really mean I hate the person making this appeal, or if they /do get in/ means I'll give them a hard time. While I doubt it's viewed like this, I'm feeling a bit dry trying to put this situation any other way since I can't ever see the benefit of these ones, for the most part. Past issues with others show that most of the time, it's an excuse (while yet, this one if telling the truth is one of the most changed, and can also apologize with slinging it back in our face.) I trust the community and admin team to debate and decide here, but please don't even say it's not rational when this is one of the rarer cases of actual malicious issues happening that wasn't just some sort of metagame, drama-issue, the likes. The internet isn't a mask you use to tell people to kill themselves, fucking hell.

edit: spelling
 
Sep 22, 2012
2,756
I've been around long enough to see worse things said, both online and IRL. Does that make it acceptable? No. But what matters here is the fact that, if we take Space at his word, he went out during his time gone to try and change himself, and is openly asking for forgiveness and a second chance. I don't think you even have to forgive him for what was said, as it truly was horrid, but as others have pointed out, people have done things as bad, if not worse, and never went out to try and fix themselves as Space apparently has, or were even banned. At the very least this warrants a second chance with a tight leash, in my opinion.
 

The Scamming Fox

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2016
277
Identity
I've been around long enough to see worse things said, both online and IRL. Does that make it acceptable? No. But what matters here is the fact that, if we take Space at his word, he went out during his time gone to try and change himself, and is openly asking for forgiveness and a second chance. I don't think you even have to forgive him for what was said, as it truly was horrid, but as others have pointed out, people have done things as bad, if not worse, and never went out to try and fix themselves as Space apparently has, or were even banned. At the very least this warrants a second chance with a tight leash, in my opinion.
That's something that we can't really say for 95% of how these types of people normally act. I think what they did wasn't really ever truly something that can be forgiven, but if Cletus here can prove me wrong with a second chance, please do. There's nothing better than seeing what I expect cracked in half because someone did something /better/.

I'm not sure if they did anything else, but aside from the common-sense level of RPing stuff, a leash on it with OOC/LOOC stuff like that to be kept an eye on would be an expected and good way to tell if they do something. The alt still happened, which isn't' great, but at worst you can just delay when they come back for the amount of time deemed worthy for that separate issue, maybe? shrug
 

NodCommando

Not an HL2 Admin
Aug 20, 2011
289
My thoughts are that, since this ban was applied during a somewhat different era where accountability wasn't really held to any real standard (someone above mentioned different punishments, ranging from nothing at all to permabans for different people in similar situations), the ban itself should be re-evaluated, but it's still a completely fucked thing to do to tell that to Bekah. Just because she hasn't been on TnB for a year doesn't lessen the severity of that. Regardless, nothing the peasants say in here will really have any meaning. It's up to the (4 man?) RDA team now if the ban should stick.

My personal feelings on the matter? Bekah was a nice person. Saying something shitty like that to Bekah is pretty monumentally shitty. I sincerely hope you've changed, because there's a time and a place for being a dick, but that wasn't it.

That being said, I've had my own spats of being an ass, and I've made active, conscious efforts to just be polite in general, so if you've managed to overcome your "dark place", then.. we'll see.
 

Chad

Legend
Aug 12, 2012
1,095
I think some of you are forgetting that a majority of our community when they initially join are going through a lot of changes in their life. When most of us started here at the ages of 14 or 15 there’s going to be lots of moments where things are said and looking back on them you’ll say “oh wow that’s super cringey I probably shouldn’t have said that” or “man what a terrible thing I said why did I do that?”

now I’m not saying forgive and forget but at least give people opportunities to change and move on from that version of themselves. people say edgy shit all the time when they’re young and immature so let’s not paint this with a broad brush and act like the guy was repeatedly harassing someone over a lengthy period or being a predator.

my biggest issue is the circumvention of the ban with your alt. trust is a big part of any unban appeal and personally I think you sort of tossed that out the window with your alt, but at least you fessed up to it. idk what else to say but this feels like a grey area, definitely isn’t as clear cut as others want it to be.
 

NodCommando

Not an HL2 Admin
Aug 20, 2011
289
I think some of you are forgetting that a majority of our community when they initially join are going through a lot of changes in their life. When most of us started here at the ages of 14 or 15 there’s going to be lots of moments where things are said and looking back on them you’ll say “oh wow that’s super cringey I probably shouldn’t have said that” or “man what a terrible thing I said why did I do that?”

now I’m not saying forgive and forget but at least give people opportunities to change and move on from that version of themselves. people say edgy shit all the time when they’re young and immature so let’s not paint this with a broad brush and act like the guy was repeatedly harassing someone over a lengthy period or being a predator.

my biggest issue is the circumvention of the ban with your alt. trust is a big part of any unban appeal and personally I think you sort of tossed that out the window with your alt, but at least you fessed up to it. idk what else to say but this feels like a grey area, definitely isn’t as clear cut as others want it to be.
My take on the ban evasion is that, he could've kept evading. Easily. He outed himself of his own volition. So- yeah, wrong to ban evade, but situationally, overlookable.
 
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